Special Guest - Lesley Logan

The wonderful Lesley Logan joins me on the podcast! She shares her Pilates teaching journey, how she went into business for herself, how she keeps her teaching fun and engaging, and her advice for new instructors. Tune in!

I want to hear from you! Share your thoughts and follow the podcast on Instagram and Facebook @pilatesteachersmanual. Full show notes and episode transcription can be found on the podcast website here: http://bit.ly/pilatesteachersmanual. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast for updates, and rate and review wherever you listen!  Episodes now available on YouTube: *https://bit.ly/YouTubePTM*

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Show Notes:

Lesley is an experienced Pilates teacher, business coach and mentor, and presenter. She is the owner of OnlinePilatesClasses.com and Profitable Pilates. You can hang out with her on her website and her Instagram!

Support the podcast:    

Visit https://links.oliviabioni.com/affiliates to take advantage of some sweet savings!

Episode Music:

Tracks: Tobu - Good Times, Tobu & Itro - Sunburst 
Tobu Official YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/tobuofficial
Itro Official YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/officialitro
Released by NCS 
https://www.youtube.com/NoCopyrightSounds

Transcript

[00:00:00] Olivia: Welcome to Pilates Teachers' Manual, your guide to becoming a great Pilates teacher. I'm Olivia and I'll be your host. Join the conversation and the Pilates community on Instagram at @pilatesteachersmanual and visit buymeacoffee.com/OliviaPodcasts to support the show. Today's chapter starts now.

[00:00:56] Olivia: Hello. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the podcast. I am [00:01:00] over the moon today to have Lesley Logan on with me. Leslie is an incredible Pilates teacher, mentor, businesswoman, entrepreneur, superstar. She's the founder of onlinePilatesclasses.com. She's the host of Be It Till You See It podcast. She runs Profitable Pilates, which is, uh, helps Pilates businesses grow and thrive. And she has the best Pilates equipment that I've ever seen in all kinds of bright and beautiful colors. She's incredible. I'm so excited she's here. Thank you so much for being on the show, Lesley. 

[00:01:35] Lesley: Oh, I love it. Thanks for having me. And thanks for the intro. Um, it's a, quite a beautiful collection of equipment. I agree. 

[00:01:41] Olivia: It's so aesthetically pleasing. And it's so funny because when you look at, you know, You know, Pilates equipment websites, there's the option to have it in teal or blue or pink. And I just love that you said yes, please to all of that. All of it. 

[00:01:55] Lesley: I know. I just actually emailed my person at Contrology. I'm like, can you just send me a new swatch [00:02:00] sheet? I can't find it. And I want to order some more pieces that I already have, but another color. 

[00:02:05] Olivia: I love it. It's so, it's so beautiful. Like your studio is absolutely gorgeous. So first thing I always want to know is how did you get into Pilates? What was your first experience in Pilates land?

[00:02:18] Lesley: Oh my God. I got into it kind of kicking and screaming. And I love telling this story. I was so embarrassed by the story when it, when I fell in love with Pilates. Cause I was like, Oh, especially when I became a teacher, I should never tell people that I thought it was BS. Not my first workout, but before I went, um, I'm not a dancer. I was an athlete. Uh, I'm quite a clumsy person. I was a certified trainer. So I, and so And I'd seen Pilates, it was always on infomercial. And a girlfriend invited me to a class, uh, I had just graduated college, I didn't have any friends. I was living in the same town as my college, but all my college friends had moved.

[00:02:54] Lesley: So this girl who worked with me, she was like, you should come to Pilates with me. And I was like, that's a BS workout. [00:03:00] It can't do what it says. It's an infomercial thing. I'm not doing it. But there was like this part of me that's like, you don't have any friends. Go take a class, like go do a class. What are you going to do?

[00:03:08] Lesley: So I went to the class. And it's actually really funny. My first Pilates class ever was at Rael's like training center in Orange County. That's where I live. So of all the places to go to my first class, I went and I took one of his like head teachers. So like I didn't even have like, I have like, I was set up for success anyways, even though what his style is not necessarily classical, it did actually follow the classical order that day.

[00:03:33] Lesley: And I didn't know what that was, but I just knew we were doing the hundred. I was like, this is the weirdest thing I've ever done. And I feel parts of my body I've never felt before. And as an Aquarian, as someone who's in her head all the time, as someone has lots of moving plates all the time, it was the first time I felt what it was like to be in my body.

[00:03:50] Lesley: And I didn't necessarily articulate it at that moment, but when the class was over, I immediately called my dad. I'm like, you have to do Pilates. I was like a prophet. I was proselytizing [00:04:00] Pilates to anyone I could talk to that day. I changed the work schedule so I could go every day. I got a membership to yoga works and I went to apply his class every day at one of their locations.

[00:04:08] Lesley: So Lisa Clayton, uh, it was Lisa Hubbard, uh, she was one of my teachers. Like, so it's really quite funny. Uh, how the, how small the world is, but then I moved to LA and that's when someone said, you should be a teacher. And I was like, Oh, okay, maybe I'll do it to pay for my Pilates habit. And luckily I got really busy and I had to become a teacher.

[00:04:29] Olivia: I love that. And I do think that's a common theme. I also became a teacher to pay for my Pilates habit. Yeah. I was like, yeah, I'll just do a part time. Just a little, just a little over a year. So that's how you got into teaching. What was your training program like? What was it like becoming a teacher? 

[00:04:45] Lesley: Yeah. So my, so where I was taking Pilates from, the person had bought a studio and she's like, you should teach this. And she suggested, uh, that I went to this one training program in town, it was a classical training program. [00:05:00] I literally knew nothing about classical contemporary and I really didn't actually care. I was just told this person's really great teacher, they'll make you a great teacher. 

[00:05:08] Lesley: So I went to that program and it was not easy for me. Um, I managed a high end boutique in Santa Monica and I had to drive across town to like to actually do the hours and I couldn't actually be in the studio by myself until I hit 100 hours. So I was literally going there for even just two hours at a time sometimes just like build the hours up around my work schedule, around my own Pilates practice and It was, I had to do 600 hours. So I really appreciate that training because of the 600 hours. And also the 600 hour test is not one that a lot of teachers do. First of all, they don't even do a 600 hours half the time, but the 600 hour test I had to teach a beginner and an intermediate at the exact same time, starting them on two different pieces of equipment. And I think that that was the, Out of everything that program taught, that was the number one thing that I think really was the best thing it [00:06:00] could ever have set me up for because I've never overwhelmed or was never, even as a new teacher, like fearful of like, oh, a husband and wife want to come in and she comes all the time and he doesn't like, that doesn't bother me.

[00:06:11] Lesley: And I also, you You know, you're in Chicago and a lot of these towns, the studios are very small. And so I would, if you have to, I get stuck on a ladder barrel and a reformer for half an hour, you know, with two people. So I was, it was really easy for me to build my business, to be really successful, to get people results because of that.

[00:06:31] Lesley: I will also say that program was really big on like, And I don't think it's wrong. I think when you're, I think everyone needs to know your first program is just your first program. It's not your last program and it doesn't mean you have to take multiple programs. I'm not necessarily a proponent of that either. Like at some point, make sure your imposter syndrome is not why you keep taking lessons. Like there's learning and then there's like punishing yourself. Like make sure you're actually absorbing the information. But, um, they were, they were really successful making great new teachers. [00:07:00] Meaning the first rep, you were like, okay, this is how you do the exercise, and the second rep, you set the rhythm. And then the third rep is where you would actually give any corrections. And, um, and so that was really helpful in, in, in that way. 

[00:07:12] Lesley: But what I didn't understand is why I was saying the things that I was saying. And I couldn't get that answer out of my first teacher. I was kind of like, well, I figured out the best way to say it. So to say it like this, but I was like, what am I like, what am I looking for? Like, I don't, people are like, Oh, do you see how she's anteriorly, like- I'm like, what is, well, I'm not seeing, what are you seeing? What do you see? 

[00:07:31] Lesley: So I took a workshop from Amy Taylor Alpers and I felt like I understood everything that she was saying. And even though it was nerdy and even though it was scientific, and even though it might even be a little more words than I would say, I really appreciated it. Her patience and her willingness to also learn and still be learning and figuring out her own theories. And so then I did a bridge program with the Pilates Center in Boulder and actually went to Boulder to do that. I did their masters. I should be more specific because they [00:08:00] do have a bridge. I did their master's program. I really loved that. 

[00:08:03] Lesley: And then, because I happen to live a mile away from Jay Grimes studio, I started to, I know, so that's how I found it. So my, my teacher, after I did the master's program, or while I was doing the master's program, was like, you know everything I know. She was like, so I love teaching you, but I think you should go where I'm going. And so, and isn't that cool? Like that's so cool for someone to be like, no, I'm not going to keep you in my bottle. She's like, come over to this place. 

[00:08:28] Lesley: So I went there. And it was so different because it wasn't like, what's the right way to do it, or this is the only way to do it. And this is very interesting because it's a classical thing, you'd think that's how it is. They were very much like how you are, are you connected is that, are you connected to this exercise? Should you be doing this exercise? Should you be doing something over here? And they actually don't believe in talking Pilates into a body.

[00:08:50] Lesley: Jay was like, you actually can't talk Pilates into a body. And whenever people hear that, they're like, well, what do I do as a teacher? He's like, your job is to give the body the exercise [00:09:00] that needs to teach itself. Like that's our job is to be observers and not to nitpick. And I really loved that because I felt like my entire Pilates career had been a lot of people nitpicking me And what am I doing this right? Am I doing this right? and I always just felt like so unsure as a client and even as a teacher and what he and the people working with him taught me was very much like How's it feeling? Where do you feel connected? And okay, this is great. Keep doing it, but we need more reach out of you. So where in the studio would you go at the end of the reformer to get that? And it was just much more about curiosity. 

[00:09:37] Lesley: And it was so amazing because all of my clients, even my 70 year old clients started to own their own practice and they knew their own order and it just became more of a collaboration. So that's my teaching journey. You asked my first training, you got all three.

[00:09:53] Olivia: I was going to say, you see such a cool evolution and it's not evolution, like you're leaving things [00:10:00] behind, but it's like adding to and like filling out and like filling gaps and Like what, first of all, what cool people to learn from, like the dream. And you're like, Oh yeah, down the street, like Jay, see him at Starbucks.

[00:10:15] Olivia: Like, that's so neat. And like how, and that was back in the day. How has your teaching continued to evolve? Is now you're mentoring teachers and teaching. even more people, more bodies, more abilities. 

[00:10:28] Lesley: Yeah. So I never thought I would actually mentor teachers cause I was a teacher trainer for quite a bit for Equinox and I loved that. And also like teaching first time teachers is its own. You're doing the Lord's work, y'all who are doing that. Like, um, Uh, there's something about teaching people who already done their first program, like you already know you're not going to vomit if you try to teach a new exercise, you know that the world's not going to crash down, like we've got past that. So now it's just a matter of, like, helping you put the pieces together. [00:11:00] 

[00:11:00] Lesley: My, I will say, Jay passed this summer and I still feel he's with me all of the time because the way he taught me was to just be really curious and enjoy my practice. And so my teaching changes as my practice gets even stronger. And I will say that for every teacher listening, like you, you want another cue for that? Go do the exercise. Do it again and do it again. And then ask yourself, like, what would make this better? Like, do I, should I try it on the window chair? What, what if I turn this exercise upside down? What'd that feel like? And then go do it again and then come back. 

[00:11:32] Lesley: And because I find that it is so fun for me with the people who've been through my mentorship already to nerd out with them in a different level. Cause I'm not going to overwhelm them. They went through my mentorship and we can talk. I feel like they're at my level. You know, like we're not tiered. Like they went through it and now we can talk in a different way than people who I'm mentoring currently helping them see the different pieces. But my goal is always be like, how can you find the answer in you?

[00:11:59] Lesley: Because [00:12:00] I really, really feel like in this industry, there's a lot of, because we have the elders and because like I'm a second generation and then you're a third generation. So it's almost like a lot of outsourcing our knowledge to the next highest person in the room and not actually going, well, in my body, what does this feel like?

[00:12:21] Lesley: And, and with my own life experiences, what is that? What does that do? Because I'm not a dancer, so I'm never going to use a dancer. Like I'm not going to say arm plies, you know, for, for pushups, but I hate pushups. So I do call them elbow bends because I don't want to do a pushup, right? So your own experience will actually teach you the most and you're the best cues are going to come from your own practice and your own life.

[00:12:45] Lesley: So go experience life. And I will just say like, Jay and the people who worked with them really taught me to let go of being perfect and trying to get it right. And they also are not impressed by it looking really good. [00:13:00] And that changed even how like I put things out on the internet. Like I don't really care if I'm in my pajamas teaching you guys like doing a swan.

[00:13:07] Lesley: Like I don't really care. And I don't really even care if the first rep is not great. Cause if you're going to come at me, I'm just going to say, wow, it looks like you have a lot of time on your hands. Like. Every rep is supposed to give me information, right? So if the first rep is a little sticky, Oh, where can I pull more from?

[00:13:23] Lesley: What can I get more out of that? Like we have to stop asking ourselves and our clients to be perfect on the first rep. And most of us would never ask our clients to do that. But we ask ourselves that so we don't post things. And so I'll just say it's like that mentorship with him really, really taught me how to have a little bit more fun and how to relax into a little bit more.

[00:13:41] Lesley: And also just be okay with like, is today a day that I flow and I'm just flowing? Or is today like, Oh God, I am just not getting a tall back today. What, okay. Where am I going in the studio? How can I support myself? And then when you do that for yourself, it will change your teaching. 

[00:13:58] Olivia: I love that you call that. I [00:14:00] mean, you've covered so much territory, but I want to chime in. I love that you call pushups elbow bends because I call squats, tush taps, because I don't want to do a bunch of squats, but I love the idea of like, Because you can tush tap on like lower things. If you're tush tapping on the chair, the chair is pretty high.

[00:14:15] Olivia: But if you tush tap the pedal, it's a little bit lower, you know? So love a goal. And I love making up names for exercises so that they spark joy and, uh, and work for you and work in your body. 

[00:14:27] Lesley: Yeah. I mean, here's the thing. Most of the names of the exercises are made up anyway. So make up whatever one you want.

[00:14:33] Olivia: It's so true. So true. People are like, it's called this. It's like, okay, great. Shave the ear. I will tell you my favorite, shave the ear, um, where you just go up and down. I call it the Van Gogh, because say what you mean. Yeah, exactly. 

[00:14:49] Olivia: I love that. I love it. I love the fun that you bring because. And you're so right because as you're going through training and as you're living and working as a teacher, like there are phases of like what [00:15:00] you can handle at a time and like when you are just getting started and just going through that first training, like there is a lot of pressure to do things right or in alignment with the training because you have to test out and you have to demonstrate your knowledge, but it doesn't end there.

[00:15:14] Olivia: So I love the continuation and the way yeah. It kind of blossomed in like new layers. And I, like, I love what you said about the first rep, not being perfect. Why would it be perfect? Like you're figuring it out for the first time, you know, in your body and like it. Even like things that we do again for our clients, like starting with a standing roll down, that roll down is going to feel very different than your last standing roll down.

[00:15:40] Olivia: Of course it is a whole practice happened in there. So creating space for that, not putting that pressure on yourself to look away. So liberating. 

[00:15:50] Lesley: Yeah, it was most liberating and I just want to highlight you said like where you are it's gonna change like if you're a new teacher listen this like I [00:16:00] Promise you you will learn more from teaching and from moving than you will from your manual Like and I and I say that as someone who, who's on a podcast that says manual on it. And I also say that as someone who creates flashcards, like I like I the apprentices that I worked with that just put the manual away and like got moving On their own not necessarily you should always have like it's always good to have a teacher whose eyes are on you But the ones that like self practice and got there They learned a lot faster than the ones who are always waiting for someone to teach them Cause that's a lot of information coming at you.

[00:16:33] Lesley: It's really hard. And then always just reading like you, yes, we all have different learning styles, but I promise you the more you move your body and then the more you try to teach people who don't know what you're saying, you will learn real quick. 

[00:16:46] Olivia: And it's, you know, it's a process. It's a, it's, you know, cause like even, you know, the manual that's in the title of this podcast, it's the kind of idea that like.

[00:16:55] Olivia: This is the stuff that wasn't in your manual. That's like, okay, well it told you [00:17:00] like what the setup was for the exercise, but like, how do you know what's a good studio to work at? Like, how do you know if you're teaching too many classes? How do you know? When it's time to strike out on your own. 

[00:17:11] Lesley: Oh my gosh, I love that you covered that.

[00:17:14] Lesley: Because too many teachers become a teacher, and they teach too much, and then they never have their own practice anymore. Yeah, yeah, it's really hard. No, I don't mean that to like, I, I actually think it's a, it's a, a really cute title. I think what it, what I'm meaning to say, and I hope I, and Claire's like, the teacher training manual that you have, the physical binder, has a lot of information.

[00:17:35] Lesley: Yeah. And it's impossible to put the most important information in that binder because you are going to learn it from moving your body and trying to actually articulate words. 

[00:17:47] Olivia: No, it's, it's so true. It, uh, It's one of those things where I think that's also why we say that there's an art to teaching instead of just because like if there was one way to teach, then we would all teach [00:18:00] the same and everything would be a, you know, just like a recorded thing that you listen and then repeat after.

[00:18:07] Olivia: But it's not like we change what we need from our practice changes and, you know, being able to. Like you said, being this observer and being able to see in your clients, like what they need and how you can guide them and just create the space. Like Jay said to. Feel it for themselves to learn it for themselves to teach themselves.

[00:18:29] Olivia: Like that's, that's amazing. 

[00:18:32] Olivia: How did you get started? Like you've done so many things and you're doing so many things. What was the first foray into Pilates business? Was it online Pilates classes? How did you get started in the wild world there? 

[00:18:47] Lesley: Yeah. Yeah. I'd love this. Um, cause I hope what I want you all to take away, I'm takeaway first,

[00:18:56] Lesley: is like because you heard me say I do a lot of things well you heard Olivia introduce [00:19:00] me to doing a lot of things Not everything happened at the same time and some things evolved from other things and they're always answering a question that I got a lot of. So I don't create anything that no one has asked me for because no one wants that. So, so, okay, uh, what happened is- I I 

[00:19:21] Lesley: So I started teaching Pilates in 2008. I think it's really important. We all know what 2008 was, big recession time. Everyone was canceling the Alhambra water delivery and their cable. And I got busy teaching private Pilates and no, I wasn't discounting myself. In fact, I pissed off a lot of people because what I was told in my training program was like, Oh, she's been, she graduated a year before you did, so you can charge a little less than her.

[00:19:47] Lesley: And I was like, okay, and I know how to do math. And I was like, okay, so if I charge that and I can only work on this day of my day off and these two nights, like that's going to pay me this much. And that's not going to affect my practice. I'll still be [00:20:00] able to do that. Okay, but then I'll, uh, how do I leave my job? Like, how do I, how do I, I can't work six days a week forever, right? So I realized very quickly that that math didn't math up and I lived in Los Angeles and I had student loans to pay and I was like, well, this doesn't make sense because if I lose a weekend of work for a wedding, now I'm even like more behind, like this is a- 

[00:20:23] Lesley: so I was just like, so I asked the girl who was supposed to charge less than I said, who do you charge less than? Like, who are you basing your rates off of? And she said, oh, this person. I asked, who are you basing your rates off of? And I, and I got to the person that they're all basing their rates off of, who's a very, was a very known teacher, very established. And I just was like, when is the last time she raised her rates? And someone said, I don't think she's ever raised her rates. I was like, she's been teaching for 20 years. You guys, this is stupid. I'm going to charge this rate because I think it's a value of the time that I am offering and what they're going to get. And it's going to allow me to quit my job. 

[00:20:57] Lesley: And people thought I was [00:21:00] like a narcissist. Like I was like self centered, all these different, whatever, all these things. And I was like, whatever, I'm being hired over here by this place. And they are charging that much to work with me. I'm not getting that much working for them. And that's fine. When you're an employee, you don't, there's other bills to have to pay. And I had other benefits. But if I can get, if people think I'm worth that over there, then I'm worth that over here. So I'm just going to charge the same. And so that's what I did. 

[00:21:25] Lesley: And that allowed, that was like my first instance in the business, like doing business and Pilates. Cause I was like, okay, I'm going to do things differently than everybody because they don't know what they're doing. And not in a meaning like a negative, like, I don't mean that to be like arrogant, but like I did have business experience. I do have business degree. And so, so while I can learn tons about Pilates from them, they can teach me more about Pilates than I will ever learn about anything. But they can't teach me how to grow a business that's going to pay my LA bills. And I was single. I didn't have like a rich husband. I was like this, it has to all be on me. Right? 

[00:21:56] Lesley: So what happened is, I actually was [00:22:00] asked by the gym that I was working at how I was converting so many first time clients and They I had a hundred percent conversion rate every first time client came in they all bought a package everyone did I know and we're talking- This is 2010 at this point because I just finished my conference of training I started with them in 2009.

[00:22:16] Lesley: So 2010 was when I, they gave me my first client to like teach. And those packages were, I don't know, a thousand dollars. So in 2009, like this is like, there's not cheap. And so I, um, I said, well, let me, let me observe some other people doing first time sessions. Let me see. And so I created a workshop on how to convert first time clients. And that was my first business experience. Like my first business thing that I created was I had my Pilates business. And then I created a business coaching, so it was called Profitable Pilates, and I started teaching workshops all over. I was hired by the gym I worked for. I started getting hired by different companies, studios in town, converting first time clients, and then that led into other [00:23:00] workshops like Getting Known. And a few others. And so that was the first one. And by 2013, I wrote a book and I self published that book. And so I created a business coaching well before OPC ever started. 

[00:23:12] Lesley: Over time I went from being an employee at this gym to running the studio. That was until 2010. I was running the studio. So I was like a three, three month experience teacher. Uh, well, a comprehensively experienced teacher. And I then started running nine studios for them. I became a teacher trainer for them. I was a regional manager for them. And then I let, I was still renting, had a private business. And so what I did is I built my private business enough to let go of my salaried Pilates gig. That was in 2016. And I opened up my own studio in 2018. 

[00:23:44] Lesley: OPC started in technically 2017, although not many people know that. Because it was under my own personal name and the reason I started OPC was because my husband said, your clients are not going to be as excited as you are about how much you're traveling. [00:24:00] So I started getting to travel in 2015 2014 2015 uh teaching business courses and then because I trained with Jay, with Jay Grimes, I started teaching more more workshops. 

[00:24:11] Lesley: And so he said I had to do OPC, and I really didn't want to do it. I was already on Pilates anytime. You I'm super grateful for my Pilates anytime people. I have new classes, but nothing's going on. I'm, I'm still with them. But, and they're my friends, like literally all my friends work for them and my friends are the owners. And so I was like, well, I don't really want to be a competitor to them. So what would I do differently? And how could this be different enough so people could then decide what they want?

[00:24:42] Lesley: And so that, uh, so OPC became a place where it has accountability community. We give feedback on form. We take the classes away. So that's kind of how that started. And then somewhere in 20, 19 people were really demanding a manual from me and I didn't want to do that [00:25:00] for all the reasons we've discussed and I but I was like, but I understood what they wanted I understood that they wanted something from me and I wasn't ready yet to commit to a mentorship program So I was like, well, what could I do and what would be like what would actually make sense? And what happened is I got a tarot reading Just like right after seeing that and like arguing about why I wasn't gonna do it. I got a tarot reading I'm looking at these cards and I was like, oh I could do this So that's how the cards came about. So 

[00:25:31] Lesley: Everything evolved from people either noticing I did something differently and wanting that advice or as as like as a result of things changing in my business career, having more time. So I did not start, uh, any of the actual business courses online, the coaching online until I'd left the full time salary job at a gym. And I didn't start OPC until I opened my own studio. So it was like, you know, there's just different [00:26:00] things that evolved. Um, and they evolved out of demand. 

[00:26:02] Olivia: I do want to say that I think about you whenever I raise my rates on my clients, because I'm like, you know what? Like, It's it's the value that you add and the value of your time, whether you're seeing people virtually, whether you're seeing people in person, whether you're at this studio or that studio or for yourself, like it's the value add that you're giving.

[00:26:22] Olivia: And I thought about you a lot actually in COVID as well, because a lot of people discounted their rates during COVID. And the thing is the value add is the same, whether it's in the studio or in their homes. Arguably, it's a bigger value add in their homes whenever I like, because we've talked about imposter syndrome whenever it's like, Ooh, but that's so much and like, Oh, but like, really, you are worth it. And what you're adding to these people's lives is worth it. So like, don't shortchange yourself. 

[00:26:55] Lesley: Yeah. So I want to talk about, I want to talk about rates a little bit. So thank you for mentioning [00:27:00] that. And thank you. I'm so glad I come up in your head. So I was raised without money. Like we didn't have any. So I think it's really important to know that like, this isn't something that comes easy for me to like, just spout out numbers. Like, you know, my husband and I both had to really redefine how we talk about money for so many different reasons. But. I think it's really important that when you do something you love and that helps people inherently you feel bad charging for it.

[00:27:26] Lesley: But Daniel Pink said in an interview that I heard with him, and I don't know what book he was referring to, so don't ask, but he said if the problem, if you can solve a problem that removes pain from people and you do not sell it to them, that is an issue. He said, you have a moral obligation to sell the solution if what you do removes pain from someone's life.

[00:27:52] Lesley: And I was like, ooh, a moral obligation. Well, that I can get down with. I'm morally obligated to sell you this. The other thing that's really [00:28:00] important, because we lose so many good teachers to a lot of things. They can't make enough money or they burn out. The reason you are burning out, besides teaching too much, um, you're teaching a lot because you're not charging enough, so you have to teach 35 hours.

[00:28:14] Lesley: But the reality is, is that when you teach a client, you just poured energy into them. Money is actually energy. And because they cannot teach you back in the same way, and I don't even mean another teacher, because they need to pay you too. They, they cannot repay that energy. They have to give it to you.

[00:28:33] Lesley: If you undercharge, you are then not getting your energy replaced, right? So think about it like a gas, like gasoline. If you fill up your tank up with gas, you drive on a trip, and then at the end of the trip you only fill up 75%, and then you got to go back. You're going to run out of gas. You don't, you did not refill enough. So you have to think of it like that. 

[00:28:54] Lesley: The other thing is is you have to stop thinking about what you do provides just the number of [00:29:00] minutes of the session. Remember why you do this. What does Pilates do for you? I do not, and maybe it surprises people, but I do not do Pilates so I can be really great at Pilates. I actually don't do Pilates so I can like say I do Pilates. Like, I do Pilates because I really love when I go to the gym, I surprise the heck out of people by how much I can bench press. I do Pilates because I really love that I can do any length of any hike at the drop of a hat. I don't even train to hike. I can just do it because I've got the endurance from doing Pilates. And I know my balance is going to be there because of Pilates. I do it because I want to be able to walk across cobblestones or, oh my gosh, chase someone if I need to like, oh, puppies out there. I love that I can just do that, right? Like I love that.

[00:29:45] Lesley: I love living my life. And so if you actually think about what you do and what it provides the person outside of the session, you're not charging nearly enough. None of us are, but we, so I think it's really, really [00:30:00] important to think about that. Um, It's really hard because we listen to our clients complain about the stock market or this is going up or this is going up.

[00:30:07] Lesley: Starbucks never ever asks me if they can raise their prices. Starbucks never ever ever ever gives you a 30 day notice. They also don't put it on sale before they raise the prices. You just go in the next day and they're more expensive. Bath and Body Works is about to take that cucumber melon and make it a 10 lotion.

[00:30:26] Lesley: You guys like it's all, it's already at eight. Like I, one of our, one of my members actually like broke down like this is how much it costs this year. This is how much it costs. It's like going up. Planet Fitness raised their prices 50%. 

[00:30:38] Lesley: So I, I know that you're like, we got to make Pilates accessible. There's a different ways to make Pilates accessible. So let's talk about that just because in case people think I'm just like this greedy person. No, I want women to get paid for what they do, period. That's what I want. I want you to get paid. I want you to take care of your children. I want you to have a schedule that works for you. Like this is what I want. And I know when women make money, they put it back into their community. I want women to get paid. [00:31:00] 

[00:31:01] Lesley: Accessibility is not just the cost of an event. Accessibility is location, time, childcare, care. It is also understanding that some people have a lot of other things going on where they don't, can't even possibly think about a Pilates class that's at a community rate. Okay, so if you want to help accessibility with movement, there's like a lot of things you can look at. First of all, there's a ton of, there's tons of organizations out there that already provide exercise for people who need to affordable fitness. So maybe you can donate your time and teach there, right?

[00:31:42] Lesley: Maybe you actually can, uh, take, uh, you could add $3 to every session and you can donate $3 of every session to that charity to pay for the teacher that's there. Maybe you actually connect with a child care place. And you actually teach a class in the childcare place once a week [00:32:00] so that moms can actually get their movement in and their kids can actually watch the move. Like there's tons of other things we can do. And so I am of the benefit of the belief that like charge the people who are paying for this service the rate that allows you to live. You to pay taxes, you to take care of your family, and then you to provide and pay back in ways in your community that would actually create accessibility and movement.

[00:32:22] Lesley: Like, that's what I believe we can do. And discounting your Pilates services just so that you make them accessible, it's still not accessible for most people, and it doesn't allow you to provide things for your family. 

[00:32:35] Olivia: I love the wider discussion about accessibility, like I'm doing a course with my friend, Cody, and she has a whole unit on adaptive movers.

[00:32:43] Olivia: So people who may have an amputation or may have a limb difference. And so when people think they're like, Oh my gosh, how am I going to do this exercise for someone who only has one arm or only has one leg? But that's once they're in the session, like, can they get to your studio? Can they get in the door? Are [00:33:00] there ramps? Is your bathroom accessible? Is there a parking lot that has, you know, accessible parking? Like it is bigger than just, you know, the price of the session, or do you have the tools to help this person, you know, so anything that widens that conversation is. Superb. 

[00:33:17] Lesley: And I think it's also okay to understand where you're not accessible and where you, and then who is that could provide that.

[00:33:23] Lesley: So I, the story people probably heard me say, but I'm going to say it in case we've never met before. I had someone refer me a client who had water on their brain. And so the client calls me and she's like, I've heard you're the best. I want to work with you. I also can only move for 30 minutes. I didn't have 30 minute sessions.

[00:33:40] Lesley: I didn't have the- I didn't even have a schedule where I could go, let me do that. And then also I have not, my neurological condition training was limited. And so this is an acute case. And could I do the research? Yes. All the different things. Was I interested in taking on this case? Not really. Cause it felt a little scary to be completely [00:34:00] honest.

[00:34:00] Lesley: And It wasn't where my interest lied, like in teaching. So what I did is I actually knew a girl in the same studio as me, we were in space, who was really like, she wouldn't stop talking about all that she was learning with horses and horses and Pilates and all this neurological stuff. So I just called her up and I said, I asked the person, I said, when do you like to work out?

[00:34:21] Lesley: Okay. I said, I am actually not the most trained on neurological conditions, but I know someone who is. So would you mind if I just call her and see if your time works with her schedule? And she said, sure. I said, so I called the teacher up and I said, Hey girl, do you want to take another client? She can only work out 30 minutes.

[00:34:38] Lesley: Here's when she wants to work out. And the girl was like, I would love that. And I said, her friend referred her, her friend takes from me. So You know, rates wise, I think you can probably, it's probably the same, but you tell me what you want to charge her. And she, she told me, so I called them back and I said, here's what she can do. And here's a date. She can do it. The women took her up on it. I got an email two weeks later. You gave me my life. She told me [00:35:00] you gave me my life back. I am doing things I've never been able to do before. I feel so grateful. Thank you. That was the best thing I could do as far as accessibility goes, I was not the best teacher for her.

[00:35:09] Lesley: So I really believe like, My old studio in LA, it was impossible to get up. It was an old building. There was no, there was no elevator. So anyone who had issues with getting up the stairs, I need to know in the area who can teach them as good as me in the same price point. So if I'm getting referrals like that, that I'm not referring them to a more expensive place, maybe it's less expensive, but it's still as good, right? So that was how I think it's important. Like, know your surroundings. 

[00:35:38] Lesley: If you know you are so good with men, own that and then find out who's really good with the women and vice versa, right? Like, and this is where we actually are a community and we're really helping people. And I, so I just think it's, it's okay to not be accessible to everyone. It's impossible to serve everybody, But just know who's good at what you're not, and then you can actually provide really [00:36:00] amazing gifts. 

[00:36:01] Olivia: And I think that, especially I know as a new teacher, I was like, I have to be everything to everybody. I have to work with this client at six in the morning. I have to work with this client at nine o'clock at night.

[00:36:12] Olivia: And I shared on the podcast before that I'm actually really lucky that COVID shut everything down when it did, because I would have been a teacher who was teaching way too much. Burning the candle at both ends and just not taking care of myself. And. Like, I now know that I am not the 6am workout girly and that is okay.

[00:36:36] Olivia: I don't have to be that, you know, and if there's someone who wants that time, I know morning people who would love to work with them and they'll win because they get a teacher who's excited to be there and not like still nursing their coffee and just wanting to wear pajamas and cuddle their cat. Um, so like they get a teacher who's the right fit for them and I get to not teach at six in the morning, which is a [00:37:00] win win. 

[00:37:00] Lesley: Yeah, I'm so, I'm so happy for you. I mean, not that we all needed COVID to teach us a lot of things, but I think like some of us actually learned something about ourselves. And we're like, okay, hold on. How do I do this differently? So I love that. I think you, like, I think you might've just helped someone else with that.

[00:37:14] Lesley: You know, there are people like I have girlfriends we coach who they start teaching at 5 a. m They're done at noon, but their kids have two kids who are half day. So their husband takes them. They're good, done. They don't have to pay for child care because she's home from 12 o'clock on and she's able to do a full full workday Four days a week provide for her family.

[00:37:35] Lesley: So it's really like we are so lucky if we think about it. We get to do something we really really love, but if you are making yourself a martyr, we lose you. You know, we lose you and that, that, and the people who you're the best to teach lose out on that opportunity too. 

[00:37:51] Olivia: I also love the way like that, the way Profitable Pilates came about because, um, I've run into this situation at studios. I've worked at [00:38:00] where you can be a great Pilates teacher and not the best business person or not the best studio owner. And like the love is there and the Pilates is there, but like the execution is not there. 

[00:38:12] Olivia: So for a lot of teachers, like coming into the industry, they may not know that they are a business, like you're an independent contractor, like you are your own business and you have, there's tax implications and there's, you know, like just running your own clients, like takes a lot of effort that isn't always covered in teacher training.

[00:38:33] Olivia: So I love that you've become a resource that, again, fills a gap that, you know, you think you're going to be a Pilates teacher and teach Pilates, but like, Hey, your taxes just got way complicated. And you're going to have to keep an eye on that. 

[00:38:47] Lesley: I know. Yeah. So anyone who owns anything, make sure you don't let your accountant tell you you're a sole prop and it's too, you don't make enough money to be an LLC or an S corp, you will be [00:39:00] sued personally if anything happens.

[00:39:02] Lesley: So I'm going to scare the daylights out of you. Frickin level up. LLC or S Corp yourself so you can protect your assets. Very, very important. Second, it is not legal in the States for a business to call you an independent contractor, but set your rates and tell you when to work. That is a misclassified employee.

[00:39:25] Lesley: And a lot of studios do this and they go, well, everyone does it in my area. Well, when the IRS comes to audit you. That's not a good enough excuse. They will just audit everybody and that's fine because y'all it's this is a business and I understand we didn't go to business school and I understand that they didn't train assistant in a, in a, in a studio setting.

[00:39:45] Lesley: And the reason they don't is this. They need teachers. That's why they have teacher training programs. Yes. They love teaching, but also they do want to pick a couple of the best of the best, right? So it is true. So you have to understand that. Yes. You don't know how to run a business. 

[00:39:57] Lesley: A lot of us fell into being [00:40:00] entrepreneurs.

[00:40:00] Lesley: I also didn't know about the tax stuff. Um, I luckily had an accountant who said, we are going to make you, you've decide which one do you want to be? Because you're going to get audited. Here's the other thing. Like, it's really cool to have a big girl business. That's my old, my old coaches, like big girl business, like the BGB, like we, like we have this.

[00:40:20] Lesley: And when you have a business that runs really well, It allows you to have time away from it, and it allows you to make the impact you want to have. I think it's really important. If you are an amazing teacher and a terrible business person, you won't make the impact you want to make. I don't care how good a teacher you are. And correct, if they're not an independent contractor, they make a little less in air quotes because of the taxes they get. Ah da da da da. You're just doing the thing that they would have to do later. So not a big deal. Second, it allows you to do a lot of things. Think about COVID. All of the places that were all independent contractors, they were not able to file for any SBA or PPP [00:41:00] because they did not technically have a payroll.

[00:41:02] Lesley: Their, their ICs could not file for unemployment because they were not technically employed. There are things that protect us. And so, It's really important. It's annoying. It's annoying to have a business lawyer. It's annoying to have, like, you know, to, to do these things. And yes, it sounds expensive, but also you can make a bigger impact when you have these things and also to the teachers, you're more protected when you are classified correctly.

[00:41:25] Lesley: And so, you know, not everyone is employee. I'm not a good one that I'm an unemployable person. Like I understand that. But if you don't like the aspect of all the taxes and the marketing and all the things and you just want to teach. Find a studio that actually knows how to run itself and work there and like rock your socks off because My friend and I when we worked at a gym, we did the math and if you actually think about like, okay If you rent space from someone You're the fee you pay.

[00:41:54] Lesley: Yes, you get more you get all of it, But you do pay the taxes on it. You pay the rent on it You pay for your own website [00:42:00] domain you pay for your own email you like we keep going the expenses You Technically you kind of end up making about the same as if you're an employee. So if you are going to be a terrible solo business owner, you can be an amazing employee.

[00:42:13] Lesley: That being said, if you love the idea of scaling, if you, if that nerds you out, if managing people doesn't bother you, like the world needs more amazing business owners running studios, you know, we, we need individuals who are wanting to do that. So you got to know who you are, you know, and what you want and there's, and put yourself in an environment where you can be supported.

[00:42:32] Olivia: So how have your businesses grown and evolved? Because now like, not that you're ever resting on your laurels, but like looking back at like baby business, first big girl business. And now you were telling me that you have like a whole team of people, which just lets you be the idea person and just magnify your impact because you've got that support. Like, how did that evolution kind of come about for you? 

[00:42:56] Lesley: Yeah. Thank you. My first hire was my hardest hire and now [00:43:00] I can't wait. I'm like, who else can we hire? Can we add more hours? Can we give them more hours? Like, we just sat down to like, talk about raises, Christmas bonuses, adding more hours, people like a whole thing.

[00:43:10] Lesley: Um, and I love doing that. I really, really do. So the first hire ever day was my hardest, like I said, and it's because you are like, Oh my God, I barely make enough and now I'm going to pay someone and they're not actually going to bring money in technically. Like they're, they're the first thing. And so what I did is I got a client and I was like, this is my Lindsay client.

[00:43:31] Lesley: And this guy is never allowed to miss a single session. If he misses a week, he's got to do two. Like, I mean, I like everything I teach people like this guy, like he had to do all of the things that I taught people about your clients. And so He's my Lindsay client because every time I taught him, I had to teach for an hour, but I got to pay her for five hours of work.

[00:43:50] Lesley: So I got four hours of my life back to invest on these other ideas. And then as soon as that like started to show that it was actually [00:44:00] making more money, then I got her up to 10 hours and eventually up to 15 hours and I think before she went on forever maternity leave, she was at 20 and when you hire people to do the things you don't like to do.

[00:44:12] Lesley: Or the things that don't require your face or your voice, you actually can make a bigger impact. I am best utilized in this company to teach, to do these podcasts, to do calls with people, to like, you know, like anything that's forward facing, like that is great. I don't need to be the one scheduling the email. I don't need to be the person who cleans the house. Like I don't. You know, all these different things. And so, um, do I know a lot about SEO? Yeah. Should I be the one doing the SEO on the website? No. So we have hired people whose strengths are our weaknesses or even the things that we could do kind of good because one, they get to make a living doing what they're really good at and then allows us to go, okay, how do we make the business even bigger?

[00:44:58] Lesley: So there's no resting on laurels, but [00:45:00] there is something that's really nice about where we're at in our business today and that I'm not really inventing anything new. Um, so what we're really doing is just, we do the tours twice a year. So we're just, where is the next tour going to be? How is that happening? And making them even bigger and better than they were before, more impactful. Uh, the flashcards only have one more deck to go. When that's done, uh, I will happily put that project to bed and just have fun. And I have ideas for what I want to do when they're done. Like, I want to, I don't know, like, would people want me to like text them a move of the week and then show all the different flashcards that could go with it?

[00:45:36] Lesley: I don't know. I don't know. People will survey people, but like, I'm not creating more of that, but we're, so the mentorship program, we know when it is, we know when it runs. So I don't have to, you Um, we're not experimenting anymore. We're really going, okay, how do we make what we did better? And then what is that evolving to?

[00:45:52] Lesley: And that is really fun because our team members can get to know the products really, really well, and then come to us with better ideas. Like, oh, we can make [00:46:00] this faster over here. We could do this better over here. So that's just, that just makes it really fun. And I get to spend more time with the teachers and the clients and their curiosity, which gives me ideas like, okay, we can make this better over here because they need it like that.

[00:46:12] Olivia: I love that. That sounds like a really great place to be. And just talking with you, like you just emanate joy and like peace and non stress. And like, I just love that for you because I know that then you give that to your clients and the people that you work with and the world becomes a better place when we are the best version of ourselves.

[00:46:32] Lesley: Olivia, put that on a shirt. Yes. Yes, that's exactly it. It's exactly it. Like, and that goes for everyone who's like, I have to do it all myself. You should know what it's getting done. Yes, but also like you don't need to do it all yourself There's not there's no one who's gonna give me an award for being the busiest woman in the world. No one's given me an award for like doing everything myself. You know, like and I'm really excited I'm just I'm so excited for what [00:47:00] we're doing and like How the vision I had so many years ago gets to grow even bigger because we're affecting more people's lives in a better way. And it's also really nice. It's like no, you know the mat order go do it again and see what you can find out of it. That's juicier and that's kind of where I'm at in the business.

[00:47:15] Lesley: And if you're like I want to be there, I've been teaching 2008, you heard that. Like, this has been going, I have been solely working just for myself since 2016. Like, this has taken time, and it wasn't all bright colors and roses, and it's not like that every day. Like, every day, something goes wrong, something gets, somebody wants to try to hack this, we put new, like, there's all these things that I could focus on.

[00:47:36] Lesley: But I choose to focus on like what is possible and that's because of how in my practice I'm always focusing like what is possible and someone's like I can't do this exercise. Okay, what can you do right? Like so if you have a really just go back if you have a really good Pilates practice. It allows you to do those same things in your business in your life You know, it makes the world a better place 

[00:47:57] Olivia: You've shared so many [00:48:00] nuggets of wisdom in our conversation but if you had advice to give for and I always think about it in like two audiences one people who are just getting started on their teaching journey. Maybe they're still in teacher training and then people who have been around the block for a few years and have hit their groove. Like what advice do you have for those teachers?

[00:48:18] Lesley: Yeah for new teachers Don't underestimate yourself so much. Like it's so easy to go. Oh, they've been teaching for 10 years So they know more they might but that you might actually know how to teach that exercise of that person better. You Like- so don't underestimate yourself so much, you know And I also would say like write down why you do this because it's really easy for someone else's goals to imprint themselves on you and for you to be running yourself ragged. Because it feels really good to be appreciated as a teacher. Like why are you doing this have those boundaries?

[00:48:59] Lesley: You [00:49:00] will become a better teacher if you stay curious. All right, so that's what I'll just say there Um, I, I for sure the experienced teachers probably could have got something from that too. Hopefully you did. For experienced teachers, like it's really easy to get bored if you are not staying curious in your practice. And it's also easy to outsource that curiosity to another teacher. And I do want you to get eyes on your body, but also sometimes we don't ever let ourselves be our own thoughts. And so I would say like really make sure you're protecting your practice. In the first place, you are not a one time a week Pilates person. You wouldn't want your clients to do that. It frustrates you. Probably doesn't even feel very good that you're saying you should come three times a week and inside you're like, I don't even do it three times a week. So make sure you have that. You don't have to work out for an hour. You know this. And, you know, if you're curious in your practice and you're curious with your client's practice, it's going to make things more fun. You don't burn out. [00:50:00] You don't get bored. One of the best advice I ever got from a teacher was like if you're bored your clients are bored. And boredom doesn't mean we learn a new move from Instagram and teach that. That's not bored. That's not we're not here to entertain our clients either. But when you're curious, you can't be bored So just stay curious. 

[00:50:21] Olivia: So what is next in the wild world of Lesley Logan? Are you and I think I saw winter tour going on right now, but like what is hip hop happening? 

[00:50:31] Lesley: Yeah, I don't know when this is airing, but I'm on winter tour starting December 6th through January 8th 8, 000 miles 22 cities at the time that we're talking today like Half the cities are like almost fully sold out the other half have some room but not a lot. It's huge. It's amazing So that's what's next like big. I have a retreat in February in Cambodia. It's Pilates retreat with slash life business thoughts to it and [00:51:00] it's not just for Pilates teachers, but Because the workshops can be applied to your life, but it is great if you're a Pilates lover. Some great people already signed up. Um, and I'm working on that last deck. Gotta get it done. My, my team wants to do a collector's box, so I gotta get this done. 

[00:51:14] Olivia: Oh my gosh, that's so cool. I'm, I'm so excited for you and I'm so so grateful to you for what you've shared with the Pilates community. Like you are such a positive person, a welcoming person, and you provide so many excellent resources to people wherever they are in their business journey, their life journey, their Pilates journey.

[00:51:34] Olivia: And, um, I hope that you get to see all of the great impact that you have, uh, in the community, because you are definitely something that when I told friends, I was like, I'm going to get to talk to Lesley Logan. And they were like, Oh my gosh. Like, I was like, I was like, she's just a person, but like also Pilates famous and just, um, really appreciate what you do and how you help everyone grow and help the Pilates community, um, [00:52:00] grow and be accountable and also, you know, do better. So thank you so much. 

[00:52:06] Lesley: Well, Olivia, thank you for having a platform like this and for doing it for so many people. It's needed, always been needed. So thank you. You're helping more people than you'll ever know. Um, thank you for telling that to me. Cause I don't always know what my stuff does.

[00:52:20] Lesley: I don't always get to see it, but I am really grateful that I get to, and I get to because people listen. So because people, if no one watched the YouTube videos and commented, we would have stopped if no one bought the cards. So just so you know, like. Your comments are currency. They do tell me what we're doing and I really do appreciate it.

[00:52:38] Lesley: And none of you are ever bugging me when you want to share something. I don't, it's not weird to me when people like they come up, I'd rather, it's really weird if you don't. So come say hi, don't stand there. I'm an actual human who really wants to hear what's going on with you because that's, then I want to fix, if you don't like what's going on, I want to fix it and I want to create the [00:53:00] thing that does that. So thank you.

[00:53:09] Olivia: Thanks for listening to this week's chapter of Pilates Teachers' Manual, your guide to becoming a great Pilates teacher. Check out Ihe podcast instagram at @pilatesteachersmanual, and be sure to subscribe wherever you listen. For more Pilates goodness ch,eck out my other podcast, Pilates Students' Manual, available everywhere you listen to podcasts.

[00:53:32] Olivia: The adventure continues. Until next time.